Season 2, Episode 3 - Leading With Courage in Uncertain Times with Angela Cheng-Cimini
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Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living, Season 2, Episode 3
Leading With Courage in Uncertain Times
Welcome to Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living, where we explore how ancient wisdom supports modern leadership, work, and life. This episode is on Leading with Courage in Uncertain Times.
I am joined by Angela Cheng-Cimini, Chief HR Officer at The Chronicle of Philanthropy, who is an accomplished HR leader with three decades of experience across industries. In this episode, she shares what courage looks like in the workplace and why it’s a critical skill for today’s leaders. Learn what courage looks like in practice for a leader today, how small acts of everyday bravery build a culture of courage and the ripple effects they have throughout an organization, and how courage champions inclusion.
SHOW NOTES
Leading With Courage in Uncertain Times, Season 2, Episode 3
I am joined by Angela Cheng-Cimini, Chief HR Officer at The Chronicle of Philanthropy, who is an accomplished HR leader with three decades of experience across industries. In this episode, we discuss what courage looks like in the workplace and why it’s a critical skill for today’s leaders. Learn what courage looks like in practice for a leader today, how small acts of everyday bravery build a culture of courage and the ripple effects they have throughout an organization, and how courage champions inclusion.
Listen as we explore:
🌿 What courage looks like in practice for a leader today.
💛 How small acts of bravery build a culture of courage.
🧘♀️ What we can learn from fear.
✨ How mindset gets in the way of us doing our best work.
🤝 Why is it important to take action that is aligned with our core values?
🌿 How we cultivate inner steadiness amid change.
We weave in yoga philosophy through the lens of Satya, from the yamas (external ethics) and Svadhyaya, from the niyamas (internal ethics).
Satya means truthfulness and how speaking truth, even when it’s uncomfortable, is an act of courageous leadership. How is honesty rewarded in your organization?
Svadhyaya (self-study) and how courage begins with self-awareness — knowing your fears, triggers, and values. How can leaders use self-inquiry to shape their leadership style or decisions?
For leaders at all levels and those who want to cultivate courage in the workplace, this episode is for you!
IN THIS EPISODE:
Learn more about our guest:
Angela Cheng-Cimini is the Chief HR Officer at The Chronicle of Philanthropy. She is a global executive Human Resources leader with over 30 years of comprehensive experience in both Generalist and Specialist competencies, partnering with C-suite leaders. She has been a proven contributor to the business strategy by helping leaders identify and build organizational capabilities. She is a board advisor to technology start-ups dedicated to the future of work, a keynote speaker trusted by Fortune 500 organizations as well as some of the largest HR associations, and a dedicated advocate of the AAPI community.
TRANSCRIPT
(Please excuse any errors in the transcription.)
speaker-0 (00:04)
Yoga is a living, breathing, evolving practice where we get to connect to more of who we are, let go of the chaos and the suffering, let go of the attachment, and really connect to our true selves.
speaker-0 (00:18)
Hi, I'm Monica Phillips. I'm the founder of Spark Plug Labs. We do executive leadership coaching for individuals, teams, and groups. I started this video podcast series, Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living, to bring some of the ancient wisdom of yoga to show you how it helps us overcome fear, deal with a world full of anxiety and stress, and so much change.
speaker-0 (00:44)
I'm a certified yoga teacher, and I'm excited to share these episodes with you, full of interviews with world-class leading yoga authorities across the US and Canada who teach globally. I hope you enjoy them. Please join me off the mat. Welcome to Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living. I'm your host, Monica Phillips, and today's conversation is leading with courage in uncertain times.
speaker-0 (01:11)
Based on an article that Angela wrote in the Association for Talent Development, I'm thrilled to be joined here today by Angela Chang Semini. She's Chief HR Officer at the Chronicle of Philanthropy. She's a global executive human resources leader with over 30 years of comprehensive experience in both generalist and specialist competencies, partnering with C-suite leaders. She has been a proven contributor to the business strategy by helping leaders identify and build organizational capabilities.
She's a board advisor to tech startups dedicated to the future of work, a keynote speaker trusted by Fortune 500 organizations, as well as some of the largest RHR associations, and a dedicated advocate of the AAPI community. I was thrilled to read this article you wrote, Angela, and I'm so grateful to have you on the show. Welcome.
speaker-1 (01:59)
Thank you so much, Monica. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
speaker-0 (02:03)
I've had so many great conversations with you already. And so it kind of feels like I want to rewind and bring all of that back in, but I'd love to just start by asking, what does courage look like in practice for a leader today?
speaker-1 (02:15)
So the article that you mentioned, I wrote not because of something that happened at work, but because I was watching what was unfolding during the campaign of the last presidential election. And we know that there were many detractors of our current president at that time, and then they're now kissing the brink. And I just wondered what happened to their resolve. What happened to their courage to say the emperor has no clothes?
So it was really much more of a societal lens than it was about a workplace lens. But for me, the definition is the same, which is courage is the ability to know oneself, to know what you stand for, and the willingness to stand up and act in concert with them. it's not, it's definitely not easy, right? I mean, my husband often says that, you know, principles cost money. Right. So it's not so easy to just say you can just quit your job.
Or you can leave that relationship or you can just move out. Right. There are there are consequences to those choices and we're not always positioned to be able to make them. but to the degree that we can control our environment, courage is the ability to know what's true for yourself and live your life that way.
speaker-0 (03:30)
I love that you brought that in so eloquently. And I think of in the yoga philosophy, the yamas start with ahimsa, do no harm. And then it moves to satya, truthfulness. And I think, what does it mean to live in truth? Really, to live in truth. And I feel like so often I look up at leaders and it feels like they're lying to themselves to have arrived to where they are. And their whole body is living in dissonance.
And it must not feel good at the end of the day. And instead of trying to get find stillness and listen, they double down, right? It's like, nope, no, I'm just gonna stick with the lies I've created for myself because it's protecting me, which is a greater lie. Instead of like peeling off the layers of lies to come to who we really are. And I believe, like really do believe deep down, we all want to transform fear into love.
And I know from practice that it's really, really hard to get to that point. And then when we do, we're like, everything looks so much more beautiful. I see people, my relationships are better, I'm happier, my body's calm.
speaker-1 (04:45)
Yeah, it takes a lot of energy to sustain the lies, to sustain the falsehoods, right? As opposed to living truthfully, which is much more frictionless, right? Because everything is alignment. You're not fighting whatever doesn't make sense, because you're just forcing all that stuff back into line when it doesn't belong there. and then you can spend your energy on much more fulfilling pursuits, right? Which is which is a much lovelier way to walk through life, to walk through your work, to to be with your family.
speaker-0 (05:16)
Your article really resonated with me. I work with a lot of leaders at all levels, I'd say, and helping them to even find the leader within so that they can lead, even if they don't have that title of leadership, and mostly in the legal space. And I I think these small acts that you talked about in the article, everyday bravery, speaking up in a meeting, offering a different perspective, admitting like I don't know, helps contribute to this culture of courage. Can you share some, you know, examples that have really stood out for you to to cultivate and nourish this culture that allows for people to actually be that, to be courageous.
speaker-1 (06:00)
Yeah. I mean, we talked a lot about leadership vulnerability, which is exactly as you say, which is, you know, one of the most powerful things you can say is I'm sorry, is to admit a mistake, to take responsibility for having read the situation wrong, for have giving bad advice, for making a poor decision. All of those things, right, show a humanity that I think is so lacking. Before when we were in the green room, we were talking about the the the necessity of connection. And what we know is that.
People will make a decision about how they feel about you before they decide whether or not to believe you, whether or not they think you're credible. And so if we can signal to them that we're willing to be open, that we're willing to be vulnerable, everything that comes after that is so much easier. It's so much, it's it's so much more graceful to accept. And so I think leaders put on a bravado. They put on, you know, this, this, this persona because they think that's what a C-suite officer looks like.
When actually if they just showed up as themselves and leaned into all the things that made that helped them get there in the first place, they would be such a much more more impactful leader and one that people would much more readily follow. I mean, I I would much rather work for someone who screws it up occasionally and says, I'm sorry, and and learns from their mistake than someone who's who pretends to be bulletproof because that just doesn't exist in the room.
speaker-0 (07:20)
Yes, I love working with the five behaviors of a cohesive team. Have you worked with that? I I love this methodology and I love starting with a foundation of trust. And what is trust? It's vulnerability, it's the willingness to first see yourself and to see others. So it's just like in the yoga philosophy, the yamas, how we see ourselves and the niyamas, how we interact with the world around us. And this starting with non-harm, right? Starting with truthfulness.
Starting with really getting quiet to listen to what's within. That's what creates a culture that allows for courageous action.
speaker-1 (07:58)
And I and I think you underscore something that I I think sometimes is overlooked, which is that leaders feel compelled to fill the space. They always have the answer, they always have a speech at the ready when actually sometimes just sitting back and listening is the most powerful leadership skill that they can deploy in that moment, is simply to say nothing and just to be really engaged. Real listening is hard work, right? Like to not zone out, to not, you know, fall asleep, to to pay attention and then have the recall.
is is a difficult skill. And I think, you know, we call it active listening. We say it's active because it's it is it is. It requires intention, it requires attention. And something that we, you know, we don't do a lot. We're scrolling all day, right? We're just sort of mindlessly watching whatever's on the screen. We're not actually absorbing and remembering and feeling the impact. And leaders would do well to do that more often.
speaker-0 (08:53)
Mm-hmm. Someone mentioned to me recently how everything shifted for her when social media came into her life. I'm so glad I didn't grow up with it. And I think of this space where we can really listen as a coactive trained coach. One of the foundations is to see everyone complete, resourceful, and whole. Naturally complete, resourceful, and whole. And so when we meet people like that and we say,
I know that you're complete, resourceful, and whole. I don't have to tell you what to do. I can actually give you the space to find it from within. Just like you said, this act of listening, it is a gift to have stillness.
speaker-1 (09:37)
It is. And and again, hard work, right? To just completely so now it's funny, I I recently attended a yoga class with my daughter and my daughter in law. And there was no music. And I have to say it I found it harder for me because there wasn't there wasn't that that other layer, but it actually forced me to just really listen to the yoga instructor and to be much more focused. I think I would still prefer a class that had music.
But it was a very different experience because all it meant was that I needed to just listen to her and listen to my
speaker-0 (10:13)
When I first started yoga, which was a long time ago, I started taking I started taking yoga classes in a studio in 1996. I actually my first yoga studio class was in Paris, which was an amazing experience. And then I couldn't stop. I took every kind of yoga possible and there was never music. And then maybe around 2012, I guess I started going to yoga classes and they all had music.
And now as a teacher, I bring in music. One day I went to class and my music wasn't working. The speakers weren't connecting. And I said, I maybe, you know, we'll just do it without music, which I love. I love classes without music. And I felt this fear in the room. Like, no, I have to sit with my thoughts. And then, you know, after about five minutes, the music kicked in and everyone was like, thank God. And I was like, gosh, what if you could just listen?
To the stillness, listen to your let your breath guide you. Yeah.
speaker-1 (11:10)
Your blood moving through your body. It's a it is a very, very different experience. Yeah. to be sure. Yeah. Yeah. We're not we're not used to the Arthur Professor Arthur Brooks, he teaches at Harvard Business School. He's a professor of happiness. Yeah. And one of the things that he he really loves to espouse is be bored. Because it activates actually a different part of your brain than the part of the brain that constantly has to be activated and constantly entertained. Like we have to learn.
Just to be still, just to be with our thoughts, to ponder the deep questions that don't necessarily have answers, like, why am I here? What's my purpose? and that's not the kind of thinking you can do when there's all sorts of activity going on. You really have to go to a different part of your brain. And yeah, it's something he talks a lot about. And it's it's a practice that I I'm actually pretty good at being bored, but I like a little music my board.
speaker-0 (12:08)
I love that. You talked about leaders filling the space. And I think of courageous leadership, having the courage to say, I don't know, whether it's said verbally or not, even to just make the space to say, how do you see this? What's your experience with this?
speaker-1 (12:25)
Yeah. Yeah, it it that is it is actually so empowering. It's empowering for the leader to be able to give up the the burden of knowing it all and it's empowering for the person who's eager to show that they have value to add. It builds cohesion, it builds trust. again, not something leaders do enough of.
speaker-0 (12:43)
Mm-hmm. So what are some of the ripple effects we could see when we allow and invite in this culture of courage? And what do we need in that space? Who's going to be the champion of in of the courage to create this space of inclusion really?
speaker-1 (13:04)
The obvious answer is is, you know, top leadership, right? Because whatever they rule model sets the tone for how the rest of the organization should operate, right? Because it is, it is a living being, it is an organism, right? but my article talks about how grassroots efforts can also cultivate an environment of culture. It's just a lot harder because you have the inherent power imbalance, right? I am junior woodchuck.
To the king of all woodchucks. It's a lot harder for me to affect change. But there's a thousand junior woodchucks and only one king, which is why coups happen, right? Which is why you can affect change from the bottom, but you need solidarity, you need intention, you need people to come together and believe in the same vision. So it takes longer. but it it certainly can happen. What's ideal is when those things happen in concert, right? When when the leader says, This is what I want to see, and they role model it.
And the people on the front line are inspired by that vision and do that as well. So that the whole organization comes together and they're literally singing off the same sheet of music. very often it's not working in tandem, but what you have instead are pockets where it's working really well, where you have a mid-level manager who's really understanding how to inspire their t that team. And then there are other teams who are like, that looks interesting. Maybe I can replicate that.
And then you have maybe not the most senior most, but you have some senior levels. So you have pockets that maybe over time can co cohere and develop a culture that allows courage and allows people to speak candidly and bring their value and bring their self to work. So and ideally it sits the responsibility sits with the senior most leaders, but it can happen in lots of other permutations.
speaker-0 (14:48)
It gave me a little bit of pause thinking about that in relation to our US leadership. I read this quote from a bug's life recently. Have you seen that movie? Yeah. Okay, awesome. And and so I guess there's a line where the grasshopper says something like, Don't let those small black ants think that you know they can step in because there are thousands more of them than there are of us. And if they decide to
speaker-1 (14:58)
Yeah, I'm a Disney fan.
speaker-0 (15:16)
change their minds or come after us or fall out of line, like they're gonna take over, right? Which is what actually happens, right? And the quotes like this is not about bugs. And it's really this call for us to stand up. And I think this is what when I coach the leaders at all levels, this is what is necessary for organizations to create courage. Because if there's someone in the middle or someone at the bottom who doesn't have that leadership title.
speaker-0 (15:40)
And isn't willing to say the hard thing or doesn't feel like they can, then the culture is going to continue to fall apart. If that person has the courage of saying, hey, I noticed this thing, our goal is here. And by doing this, we're going to end up over here. If they have the courage to say that to the leader at the top, they're going to get so much more, you know, they're going to accomplish their goals. They're going to win together versus.
The person who's not willing to say anything because of a power dynamic, and then the organization slowly starts to crumble apart. And the leader at the top isn't even noticing what's happening down here.
speaker-1 (16:17)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's an important point to make is that sometimes the leader is just oblivious. It's not that they're intending to create bad culture. Sometimes they just don't know how they're showing up. and sometimes course corrections can come from lots of unlikely places. And leaders who are really listening will pick up those signals and know that, maybe there's some behavioral adjustments I need to make because I know what the kind of culture I want, and maybe I'm not doing the best job at representing what that looks like.
speaker-0 (16:45)
Yeah. You're a champion of AAPI community. Have you found ways for people to show up or let me rephrase that. So as when we have champions in the workplace, right? Champions who create this culture of courage, I feel like there's a ripple effect that really allows for a more inclusive culture. And I wonder how you see that in terms of championing inclusive cultures around AAPI community.
speaker-1 (17:14)
So I just recently gave a talk actually about something called strategic authenticity, which is it's not the same thing as code switching, although people might think that they are interchangeable. it's more about picking the skills, the side of you that would be the most impactful in that moment. So sometimes you need to be the loudest person in the room, sometimes you need to be the quietest person in the room.
Sometimes you need to know everything about football, and sometimes it's okay to know nothing about, you know, what happened last night, Sunday night. it's about choosing when and where and how to show up in ways that don't necessarily offend, but maybe disrupt. So AAPIs, right? We suffer from a model minority myth that we're all good at science, we're all good at math, we all play violin, that we all want to be doctor scientists engineer.
I'm terrible at sports, I'm terrible at math. and I grew up to be an HR. So I definitely didn't fit the mold. And I was not a straight A student. and so, you know, I knew that there were times when developing maybe a sense of humor could overcome, could help me overcome, you know, some of my awkwardness. And so that was something that I worked on. Now it doesn't mean I'm trying to be funny all the time because that's not always appropriate either. but there are moments when I show up in this room where I might be slightly different than if I show up in another room.
And that's not about compromising who I am, but it is about strategic authenticity. So when people can master that, then that helps other people to understand that they can show up in different skins, but it's all a skin that they own. Right. and when we can allow that to happen, then people can feel free to be authentic and create inclusiveness.
speaker-0 (19:04)
Yeah. That's fantastic. We were talking about mindset earlier in the green room and how maybe we want to be a version of ourselves here, but we're playing below the line because our mindset is not serving us in this sense of abundance. How does that play into the work that you do?
speaker-1 (19:27)
You know, it's it is such a journey, for people, right? I mean, 'cause I do think that it is so intertwined with courage. I mean, I I am not I don't have I had a very different level of courage when I was in my twenties, right? Coming out of school. I was I was meek, until I found my voice. And now I'm at the age where I don't have time for people who will play games. I'm very intentional about who I spend time with. so I think it's a little unreasonable to expect that right out of
you know, right out of the gate, you're gonna feel comfortable in every setting and that you can speak your truth in every environment because that does take practice. it does mean it does mean building up your antenna to write to to sense what rooms what the rooms are reading like. but I think that in a in a workplace setting, that's something that you can get cues from your manager, from your colleagues. You can watch role models, you can see what has given other people success, you can see what's driven other people's mistakes and failures. and so if we're watching for all of those, then I think you know, people are well on their way to growth so that they can be their true selves eventually.
speaker-0 (20:41)
Yeah. I love this quote from Gabriel Harris in her book, The Language of Yin. If we look to others for our core values, we will be the breeders of our own insecurity. And I really agree. I just I love it. Like if we take action or inaction that does not align with what matters to us, our core values, it will be dissonant and it will push us into this mindset of living below the line and we don't feel good in our body. And it shows up as stress, which is a leading fat cause for most of our ailments.
And I really believe that there is this connection between aligning our values and goals and showing up with courage in the workplace.
speaker-1 (21:21)
Yeah. I mean, I have left jobs because I fell out of alignment. and I probably came to those realizations you know later than I should have. but that, you know, that sort of wisdom and experience that comes with age, right? I'm less patient now. but yeah, I I completely agree with that. D you can't live to someone else's standards if they're not naturally your own. I think it's good to aspire and to follow role models, but pick carefully.
because it will really determine how you spend your time. I'm at the age where I have fewer years ahead than I do behind. And so I wanna be really careful about who I spend it with and how I spend it.
speaker-0 (22:03)
It's such a human condition, what you just shared to make choices that aren't in line with our values. I've made plenty, right? Choosing a relationship, choosing a job, choosing a city where I think it's what I want or I'm supposed to want. And then I realize it's not really connected. And also, I mean, per my personal journey was I thought I wanted this over here. And then I came back to really.
Connecting to my roots and found I was right where I needed to be. And there's this story that we spend the first half of our lives adding on all the layers that we think we need to be successful, and then the second half of our lives stripping them away to come back to who we really are. And I absolutely had that journey.
speaker-1 (22:52)
Yeah. I d I I and and that's the kind of thing that you I think you have to age to go through that process. I don't think that's something I could tell tell my twenty five year old self now and and have me make any sort of different choice. I think you just have to go through that process of adding the layers and then delayering. I think that's I I think you're right. I think that's an arc that all of us go through. and it's neither good nor bad. but it would serve our benefit if we could sort of shortened the front half of the arc so we could get to the good stuff sooner. Mm.
speaker-0 (23:25)
Yeah. How do you personally cultivate your own inner courage?
speaker-1 (23:31)
well, I think I've been blessed to have had enough successes that I have confidence. that I trust my instincts, that I know when something doesn't feel right, it's because I'm, you know, the universe is telling me this isn't right. Right. If I'm not rationally picking up the signals, then there's other energy that's telling me I I accepted a job that I really shouldn't have. And there was every every ounce in my body was like, Don't take this job, don't take this job.
and I did it anyway. And if I just listened to myself, I trusted my intuition and instincts, I would have saved myself a lot of harm and pain later down the road.
speaker-0 (24:05)
Well, there's like this self-preservation that gets in the way, right? Like, I'll never find another job that will pay me like this, or I'll never, or I'll be homeless because I won't ever work again. It's like all the fear keeps us from really being courageous. And I think ultimately what's tied to that is lack of community or having other people we feel safe with, maybe one part of it.
speaker-1 (24:29)
Yeah, no, I I I absolutely if you feel like you're in a community in a tribe, you're definitely gonna feel emboldened, right? Because you know that you've got a support system, you have a safety net, you've got people who will be there for you through Psychor Thin, for sure. and I and I love what you said earlier about I did it because it was what I was supposed to do. And I think we spend too much time. I mean, even now at this age, I sometimes make choices because I think it's what I'm supposed to do. and and now
more regularly it's not a fatal mistake because I'm going in with my eyes wide open. But a lot of times I do it out of obligation more than okay, than than it is for myself. but I think so long as we recognize that that's that that's not always serving us well and hopefully we're taking some lessons from that so we don't do it again. Yeah.
speaker-0 (25:16)
I like, do you Zarna Garg? She's she's an author, Instagrammer. She's an Indian woman who talks about, she's a com comedian. She's hilarious. Zarna Garg. And the first time I saw one of her skits, it was about yoga. So it kind of went viral in my yoga communities. And she's telling this skit, like, you know, all these white women with their fancy clothes and their fancy pants and their math, and like they're rushing, rushing, rushing to get to yoga. And she says, you know, we wear a sweat.
like pajamas when we do yoga in India. So like if you're rushing to get to yoga, you're doing it wrong. And I just love her. All of her skits are hilarious. She talks about how she found her husband, how it was like very much like a formula. Like I want someone who's going to marry me. I'm not looking for anything else. Right. Like this is what I want. And I just like love how sometimes we have this especially in in coaching circles, it's like what's your passion? You know, like sometimes you can just do a job and like it enough.
speaker-1 (26:12)
Yes.
speaker-0 (26:13)
And then you get to show up and you get to be courageous. And then you like it a little bit more. And then you find that you're really good at this thing. And you have coworkers who see your talents, not just your title, see what's possible, not just the limitations, allow you to grow, right? It's a nourishing. Then you like it even more, right? Or sometimes you just do a job and it pays you. So you go home and you do the thing you really love to do. And I think it's like that in any relationship, right? It's like we it doesn't have to be everything for us, and there's this.
I think a misunderstanding that one thing is going to complete us. No one thing is going to complete us. We, we complete ourselves when we get quiet, when we have the courage enough to listen. Nothing to add. What is one courageous conversation you've had recently that left you changed?
speaker-1 (27:00)
You know, I don't think it was a specific exchange except that, you know, I've been working on my relationship with my daughter. Mm. and she is a beautiful human. She's twenty six. When my kids were young, like really little, I would tell them really I f I fully expect one day you will be smarter than me. Today is not that day. but they are increasingly showing me flashes of brilliance where I'm like, yeah, I
Yeah, you got you got me there. And I've become so much more open to being taught by them. And so again, I don't think it's a specific conversation that I've had with either of my children, but just generally being willing to sort of flip the dynamic of that relationship to be the student and letting them be the teacher and being sort of in awe of who they've become.
they have such integrity. They are loving, they are giving, they're compassionate. you know, my son is married and to see him be in a really healthy, loving relationship is probably one of the most gratifying things you can do as a parent. Right, 'cause there's nothing you can do if they make bad, you know, partner choices. Yeah. and so I think I think it's
watching my relationship with my children evolve into something that's even deeper and richer than I thought it could ever possibly be. And they're only in their twenties. Like I don't know what it's gonna look like when they're in their thirties. so I'm really looking forward to that and their capacity to grow, and their capacity to change me for the better.
speaker-0 (28:43)
Angela, what a beautiful way to model leadership and it just an invitation for leaders at all levels to invite in awe for the people they are surrounding themselves with.
speaker-1 (28:57)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean we we go through all this trouble of hiring really good people. and then we make the mistake of not letting them go and letting them do what we brought them here to do. so it's I you know, I think we overengineer leadership sometimes. pick the right people, give them, you know, a North Star and then let them go.
speaker-0 (29:17)
Perfectly said. Angela Chang Semini, thank you so much for being here with me for Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living. Such a pleasure to have you.
speaker-1 (29:25)
Thank you, Monica.
speaker-0 (29:29)
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