Season 2, Episode 1 - From Dosha to Dialogue: Transforming How We Connect at Work
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SHOW NOTES
From Dosha to Dialogue: Transforming How We Connect at Work
Jeanne Heileman specializes in discovering the needs of an individual and gently guides each student to their own grace and balance. She has been a Teacher Trainer with YogaWorks since 2005. She is a Level II Certified ParaYoga Instructor and a 500-ERYT. She is the founder of Tantra Yoga Flow.
IN THIS EPISODE:
Here is a clip from Season 2, Episode 1 - Yoga Philosophy for Everyday Living
Jeanne Heileman shares how to communicate with people related to the Doshas.
Vatas don't always finish their tasks. They are the dreamers and visionaries. Catch them with your eyes and hold their gaze to help them feel grounded and safe. Drop the tone of your voice to get them to be with me.
With a Pitta, speak a little softer.
With Kaphas, listen more than talk.
Learn more about Jeanne Heileman and check out her latest offerings including a Master Training in the Subtle Body.
In this episode, Monica interviews Jeanne Heileman on the doshas and how understanding some key traits can help us transform how we connect at work. By understanding and recognizing the doshas in ourselves and in others, we can learn how to slow down, meet others where they are, and increase stability.
1. The doshas—vata, pitta, and kapha—are often discussed in terms of physical health, but how do they influence how we express ourselves, make decisions, or respond to conflict in the workplace? Learn how Ayurvedic wisdom informs us of practical, interpersonal dynamics in a professional setting.
2. How would you describe the gunas—sattva, rajas, and tamas—to someone new to yoga philosophy, and what are some ways they show up in our communication styles at work? How do we move through the doshas at different times? Energy and behavior are fluid, rather than fixed.
3. How are the gunas and doshas interconnected, and what does that relationship teach us about adapting our communication style to different people or situations?
4. Can you share an example of how understanding someone’s dominant guna or dosha helped improve communication or collaboration in your own work?
5. In a high-pressure or fast-paced workplace, how can we cultivate more sattva—or balance among the doshas—to foster clarity, empathy, and meaningful connection? Gain insights you can apply to shift the energy of your teams or conversations.
Episode highlights:
9:09 - If you are working with someone ...the most important thing is to meet them and slow yourself down.
19:00 - Caress someone's pitta dominance to lower their resistance and soften their need to control and criticize.
19:54 How do you add femininity to a demanding workforce? Weave in a sliver of femininity to soften the harshness...
21:23 The Vatas don't always finish their tasks. Catch them with your eyes and hold their gaze to help them feel grounded and safe.
27:35 - The gunas are qualities of Nature. It's natural for things to change. They originate in the mind.
34:32 We have this lovely feeling and we start clinging to it, we don't want it to end. If we stay too long in this, we lose the sense of humor about ourselves.
40:57 The gift of a steady meditation practice is to be able to ride the wave of our own thoughts so you can sit with hard situations.
Learn more about Jeanne Heileman and check out her latest offerings including a Master Training in the Subtle Body.
Sept. 19 – 21 and Oct. 3 – 5, 2025
9:00 am – 4:00 pm PST
Livestream via Zoom and On Demand.
https://jeanneheileman.com/
LINKS
Jeanne’s Weekly Class: https://mailchi.mp/jeanneheileman/tantra-flow-yoga-class
Jeanne’s Class Library: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/tantraflowyoga
Bhagavad Gita Library: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/foodforthesoul
Jeanne’s website: jeanneheileman.com
Jeanne’s Yoga International classes: https://yogainternational.com/classes/?query=jeanne+heileman
Jeanne’s YogaWorks Classes: www.yogaworks.com/classes/live
Jeanne’s Den Meditation class: https://denanywhere.com/schedule/
TRANSCRIPT
(Please excuse any errors in the transcription.)
Monica
Hi, I'm Monica Phillips. Welcome to yoga philosophy for everyday living. I am pleased to welcome back Jeanne Heileman for this second season of the show. Welcome Jeanne.
Jeanne
Thank you so nice to be here. Thank you for having me.
Monica
We are going to talk about the doshes and the gunas. And you shared something on Instagram, which was perfect. And it was about the doshes, vata, kappa, and pita, which you will do. And communication.Jeanne
Monica
And you did it so perfectly. And I thought, I want everyone to hear this because I see this in the workplace where I coach executives and I meet people and we're coming in to these spaces where we're talking about a lot of lofty ideals, but we're not really seeing each other.
Monica
So that's what led me to this topic.
Monica
And I'll just share a little anecdote. So Jeanne was my, was a teacher during my 300 hour teacher training with yoga works. And you led the Bhagavad Gita and made it so relatable.
Monica
And the wisest coaches I've worked with are my yoga teachers. And when I face, that's really why I started this podcast, yoga philosophy for everyday living.
Monica
I find that a lot of spaces put up boundaries, separate them. Like yoga is awesome. Or yoga is, and there's, I mean, we've all heard it, especially yoga teachers, the more we're in this space, the more we hear this yoga is right fill in the blank. And it's kind of funny because it's like, yes. And yes, and yes, yoga is all of that. And how does it meet us where we are?
Monica
In this, and what can we, how can we leverage it to learn self awareness, empathy,
Monica
seeing another person is my cat crawling on the back of my chair.
Monica
One of my two, 14 pound cats.
Monica
So the dosas Vada, Pita and kappa are often in terms of physical health. How do they influence how we express ourselves, make decisions or respond to conflict?
Jeanne
So I think I'll go back just for a moment for anybody who isn't familiar with this.
Jeanne
So
Jeanne
we're talking about the dosas are three constitutions from the science of Ayurveda. And Ayurveda translates the Sanskrit word and it translates to life. Ayur means life, Veda is wisdom.
Jeanne
And when you talk about most ancient scriptures, possibly written are known as the Vedas and they are the wisdom texts.
Jeanne
And so Ayurveda is life wisdom, life knowledge.
Jeanne
And so it isn't just what your dosha baby, but it's learning how to live a life in harmony with nature,
Jeanne
which means that when
Jeanne
nature at our taping, we're in May, and for many regions, it's starting to get warmer. So can we live balance so that even if the heat increases, and most places will have high heat in the northern hemisphere because of global warming, and will it throw us off?
Jeanne
Or are we going to be difficult to live with and have a difficult life because it's too hot. And it's not just the weather, it's about everything. And Ayurveda is helping us learn how to find balance amidst the changes so that we can ride the waves of change because life is all about change and yet keep a sense of equanimity within.
Jeanne
The dosha's are blending of elements. And so we're borrowing from chemistry. Anyone who thought I'll never use chemistry again in my life. It's like, oh, here it is in yoga. And it's the five elements of earth, water, fire, air and ether.
Jeanne
And when you blend a lot of earth and water,
Jeanne
you get an adosha actually it means interestingly enough, that which can go out of whack.
Jeanne
And it's like the word is whack, even when you go to a lot of older texts and everything, it's out of whack.
Monica
You're like, oh, when you're talking, I'm thinking of hot summer turning red, like really red sheets, aggravate.
Jeanne
All of us can go out of whack.
Monica
Sitting in a car and traffic, getting angry at everything around us.
Jeanne
Yes. So just to finish the big picture and then to go exactly where you're going. So when we're blending water and earth, we get a dosha of kappa, K-A-P-H-A. And I'm trying to honor this Sanskrit emphasis.
Jeanne
And so this is one of the dosha. And it's more attributed to larger bones, a stable body that basically the human is carrying more water, which means they may have very flexible joints and fleshy skin. And earth, they may be very stiff, they may be very solid in their body. They may have actually a lot of muscle. They may be larger in size, but not always.
Jeanne
So larger in external size doesn't guarantee that it's a kappa.
Jeanne
Then we go to another dosha that has water and fire. And that makes pit-doh.
Jeanne
The water here, the lubrication, you would think because water cools fire. But here the water has to do with more of an oiliness and a moisture, the person who sweats a lot. And then certainly a lot of fire. We can see people who have a lot of redness tone to their skin. They're quick and easy to anger. Or the way I explain a pit-doh is, you know, kappas will kill themselves at the weight for hours a day and barely see a result.
Jeanne
And the pit-doh, they look at the dumbbells and immediately they don't even touch them. And immediately the body is ripped with muscles.
Jeanne
And it's not fair. And part of it is, it's like the more we can understand what our nature is and go towards our nature, we can actually find a lot of ease. So the last dosha, we had kappa, we had pit-doh. The last dosha, so we have earth, water, fire.
Jeanne
We use these three.
Jeanne
And so you think, okay, well then fire and the next is air. But it skips and it goes air and ether.
Jeanne
So this is known as vata. So a body that has a lot of air and a lot of ether, ether meaning space, gaseous stuff as well. Not farting so much, but passing gas, but more just a cannily to bloating, but it's also just space in this in the month or in the communication.
Jeanne
And so that person has no earth,
Jeanne
no fire, and no water. So not much flexibility. So that type of body tends to be thinner in structure.
Jeanne
And also tends to be creative and the mind is elsewhere. Not always thinking. So we have these three dosha. And so the video that I did about how to talk to a dosha.
Jeanne
If you're working with someone who is kappa, so they have a lot of earth, a lot of water. Kappas, you know, in the workplace, kappas are excellent hard workers. They will stick on a job until the end. Even when it gets really difficult, the vatas are like, I can't do it. And I want to move on. And the pictures like, it's not going my way if you're not doing it my way, because pictures can be very fiery. And they, they have clear vision leaders are at pitches can be excellent leaders.
Jeanne
Kappas are like the ones, okay, I will do the work and I will get it done. And so you always want kappas on your team. And they're also loyal and loving. But with all this earth, with all this water, they can tend to move slow. And I gave the example of someone who chooses words slowly and often carefully.
Jeanne
And the average person who's not a kappa is going to be well, you know, get to the point, wish that they would finish and speak faster.
Monica
It's interesting, you know, as you're using that example, I'm wanting to jump in and I'll get out of you and finish your sentence.
Monica
I have been in rooms with people who speak
Monica
so intentionally, and you're grasping every word and you're like, yes, yes, it can be wisely. Sometimes it can be very effective.
Jeanne
Yes. So it could be a pitta who knows how to work the audience.
Jeanne
We're about to.
Jeanne
And it's not defined fault. And the thing is kappas do everything slow. Well, not everything. Let's we're not going to categories because we all have all of these three doses. But if you're with somebody who just operates at a slower nature, and you see that they may have more kappa, the most important thing is to actually meet them
Jeanne
and slow yourself down.
Jeanne
And I have a sibling who does this. And he would drive me crazy because he's a he so he would also love to mansplain with me. And I have a lot of vata and I have a lot of pitta. And I'm like, I already know. And yet when I would cut him off, and you know, when I finished the sentence, I hurt him.
Jeanne
And it disrespected him.
Jeanne
And it's when we understand this, it's really an excellent challenge for us because however we're wired, we're going to be challenged with the dominance of another doja that doesn't match us. You and I have more vata and pitta, so we can just jabber easily. But if we're with someone who does operate more thoroughly, more concisely, or like that, at home or in the office,
Jeanne
the most important thing is, if we can adjust to meet them, we grow.
Monica
I have some really close girlfriends in Washington DC. And one is more intentional with her words more kappa. And I love that I gaze she I love the eye contact, she gives me the attention. I feel this heart connection. We see each other. Yeah, each word is meaningful. Yes.
Jeanne
I mean, if someone has more kappa in them, and the thing is also during the seasons, we all have more kappa. And we're because there's a in the spring, it's heavy, it's wet, it's, we can all feel really heavy and have a hard time moving because we've accumulated everything from the winter.
Jeanne
And for a body who has more kappa, though, in general, they are really great at relationships.
Jeanne
And you want to be have some of those in your relate, you want to have relationships with couples, because they will be there with you.
Jeanne
And some of the other two doches will be more interested in the next exciting person.
Monica
I was thinking while you were talking to about changes hormonal changes women go through in particular,
Monica
that may impact how we're in relationship with the doges, how we're experiencing them. Because our hormones are pulling us more into one or the other that's maybe not our customary default mode.
Jeanne
It's, well, you know,
Jeanne
the current trend is it's very popular to talk about peri menopause and menopause, which is actually great.
Jeanne
20 years ago, people were still poo pooing it. And I remember 20 to 30 years ago, when the play came out menopause the musical, and everyone was scoffing it and making fun of it. And it's like, and, and it is good because it's more accepted.
Jeanne
But we all can look at the hormonal changes we went through in as a teenager, that ushered us into the next chapter of adulthood. And menopause peri menopause is, I liken it to the teenager hormonal changes that are going to usher us into the next chapter of older adulthood. And you can say I don't want to know that, but it's like, well, then you cannot live. You know, it's an honor to be moved into being an elder adult.
Jeanne
And as far as the changes, I mean, hot flashes, that's yes, extra pita,
Jeanne
weight gain, that's possibly extra kappa, bone brittleness,
Jeanne
osteoporosis, and things like that. That's extra vata.
Jeanne
And the average human from I'm not a scientist, and I'm not super schooled in menopause, except for my own lovely experience. But the average person is going to experience all of them as the hormones do their thing.
Jeanne
And so it's, you can know it though, I mean, when you're feeling really hot, if you're having a hot flash, you know, what will you do when your pita rises in general, I mean, in the summer, that's when fire and water that pita dosha increases for everyone. And when we can understand how to work with our own heat, and how to work with heat for others, if we have a coworker who has a lot of pita, then we can apply that knowledge when we're having a hot flash.
Jeanne
I mean, when my hot flashes came, interestingly enough, they often came when I was meditating.
Jeanne
And so,
Jeanne
or at least I really noticed them when I was meditating.
Jeanne
You can't miss anything when you're sitting and meditating. And I would just learn. It was kind of like, you know, those rides at the, you know, Disneyland or something fest, whatever those amusement parts. And that ride that goes slowly up and up and up and you're like, Oh my God, oh my God. And everything inside is like, I can't take this. And I would just sit and watch it and watch it. Because what was really cool is when he couldn't get any words. And it did. And it did. And then the cool shower that came down and I was able to sit and enjoy it because then you'd feel a breeze and it's like, you know, that ride that slowly inches up. So learn, I was able to watch my body temperature rise, observe my emotions arise and be more the witness.
Jeanne
And that gave me the skill then when I'd watch out in the world, when it had nothing to do with hot flash, but I'd watch my emotions rise because of this darn email.
Jeanne
It was like, Oh, we're not going to do anything, but we're going to fascinating how you're getting fantastically angry.
Jeanne
And, you know, can we not act on it and watch for, you know, when someone gets really hot, I had a friend of mine, I finally realized, Oh my God, she has a lot of pitas because pitas are like, they're the boss, they're the authoritarian, they're the knower about everything. She's always critiquing, criticizing me. And I'm just, I would feel beat up with her.
Jeanne
And it was like, Oh my God, she's a pitta. And she would have, she was having migraines. Heat rises to the head, headaches and everything. It was also a period menopause for her. But so all I did, we were talking and I changed my voice to a sweet tone and I caressed her face.
Jeanne
And she felt it. I was like, Oh my God,
Jeanne
that works.
Monica
So we probably wouldn't caress someone's face in the work.
Jeanne
Not at work, but you can caress with your energy and your words, you could caress their need to dominate the environment and the task at hand.
Jeanne
And instead of standing up to fight for your space in the project,
Jeanne
it's nuanced and everything. I'm not going to be telling somebody what to do exactly. But it's just my point is that when pitas feel safe and loved,
Jeanne
and we can help them become more loving, even in the workplace, they're wonderful. And then they can lead from a supportive open heart instead of grabbing because when pitta is really high, there's going to be a lot of competition and a lot of criticism.
Jeanne
But when pitas feel safe,
Jeanne
they can actually share. They can still lead, but share.
Jeanne
And so softness, kindness, and there can be a way to find femininity in a very demanding workforce that requires masculine energy from all genders.
Jeanne
It's like weaving in a sliver of femininity to soften the harshness. Because pitas, if they're really being this harsh, they're probably really hard on themselves.
Jeanne
And so it's offering that, you know, softness.
Monica
Yeah, I really like inviting in this sense of energetic self. Can we bring in the gunas to the conversation?
Jeanne
So okay, yes. And I'll just finish to in case anyone's wondering, with vata, if you have a vata in your environment, they're going to be all over the place. And they're doing this. And then they're doing that. The vatas don't always finish their tasks. They have a hard time finishing. And they're on to the next new idea, because vatas are up in the air. And so they're the wonderful dreamers, they're the wonderful people you want in your company, they're coming up with new ideas of what to do. But they're, you know, having them complete something, they're like board to tears, they're on to the next thing.
Jeanne
With the vatas, I have often tried to just catch them with my eyes and hold their gaze to get them grounded.
Jeanne
I also sometimes drop the tone of my voice to get them to be with me.
Jeanne
With the pit, I'm going to sweep speak a little softer. Okay. And then with tapas, you know, I'll listen more than talk.
Jeanne
So learning how to do that will help the vata be grounded and feel safe to be with someone.
Jeanne
So these are how to work with the dominance of a certain personality that you may have at work or at home. When you're like, Oh my God, the person's never here. Or, you know, vatas can also like that. I feel like you're like, What? Finish your sentence, add more words. I don't know. Like, well, you know, when he went home, and then he, I mean,
Jeanne
you're like, No, I don't know. I need words.
Monica
You see me, you get me.
Monica
I have a lot of vata pitta and I have been known to be relentless in my pursuit to finish something like maybe a workaholic is not the greatest term, but really like, actually set immense satisfaction in seeing something through. So I can be yes.
Monica
Up here, big idea. I mean, as my coach would say, like, I've got so many ideas, like I need to schedule them out to three years, right? So focus on this one. She says, just get one podcast done over the next two weeks. Oh, okay. I don't need to schedule five right now. Okay. I'll do one. Right.
Monica
And so I guess, situationally, you could see someone flow through, but since we all have all three.
Jeanne
And I mean, I don't want to sound some people may think I'm sounding kind of woo, but it also may have to do with your horoscope and your the planets and the role that they play. So we're over in Ayurveda in doshas and we're going to touch base on Gunas. And the horoscope is astrology is over in a whole other domain that I have knowledge in, but I am not skilled enough to go deeper into.
Jeanne
And so there's so many ways to look at a person. And then you can get the psychologist to say, well, you're a middle child.
Monica
So then you can get more assessment and then layer on.
Monica
And I think ultimately there's what we're talking about and maybe bigger picture is self-awareness.
Monica
When we know ourselves, we can pause, we can see someone else, and then we can find a way to meet each other.
Jeanne
Yes. And the more we know ourselves, we can call ourselves on things lovingly. And then when we see things in other people that are bothering us,
Jeanne
what I often do, because it's so easy to put the other person down and to put ourselves up is, you know, we'll wait a minute. If this is really bothering me, where's that in me?
Jeanne
It's like, it's not in me. It's like, we need to really pause and look because it is, it's in, you know, all of these things, even a murderer is in each of us. The capacity is just that we're not feeding that.
Jeanne
Most of us are not feeding that urge and that action, but we all have a murderer in us.
Jeanne
And instead of, because it's so easy to look at what people are doing and have such a separation, which leads to greater amounts of judgment.
Jeanne
And the more we can, if we see it within ourselves,
Jeanne
and we can, oh, okay, we can start to have a sense of empathy for the person. We don't have to agree with them. There are politicians, I don't want to have any empathy for.
Jeanne
And then that's my limitation because everybody is human.
Jeanne
As far as I know,
Jeanne
no one's an alien that I've gotten the email.
Monica
I question that too, sometimes.
Jeanne
That's another discussion.
Jeanne
So do you want to talk about the gun is then? Yes. Talk about it. And because this is where it gets all confusing. So the dosha's are the energies of the two major elements that play a dominance. And again, we all have all of these dosha's within us.
Jeanne
And, and it ripples from the body and it can ripple into the personality. If I don't take care of myself to prevent myself from going too deep into my dominant dosha. And that includes how I eat food affects the mind.
Jeanne
And, you know, what time I get up and what I'm doing in the day and how I'm guiding my life. I can go completely out away from what I was who I was designed to be in this lifetime, and my soul purpose, my soul's purpose, my soul. And so this, it's not just your physical body. And the body is the first thing that will really show us often if we're in alignment with our purpose or not.
Jeanne
The gunas are known as qualities of nature, nature with capital N, and it has to do with its natural for things to change. It has to do with everything in the world that's changing.
Jeanne
And in Sanskrit, that's known as procrity.
Jeanne
And you're like, well, if we really think about it, everything changes.
Jeanne
And it's natural for things to change. As much as I don't like it, my hair is going to get gray and it's natural. My body is going to have saggy skin and my bones and organs are going to break down and that is natural. And as much whenever I catch myself, when I see a little bit of a wrinkle, a wrinkled skin, and I'm older now, but I'll be like, oh, Jeanne, you didn't do a good job to take care of your skin. It's like, wait a minute, wait a minute. It's natural. It's supposed to happen. I mean, still take care of yourself, but it's natural. I'm not supposed to be walking around with the skin of a 20 year old right now. That's weird.
Jeanne
So all everything changes, except for one thing. And this philosophy, the one thing that doesn't change is our soul.
Jeanne
And it's with the perspective and the belief of reincarnation. And if some people don't believe in that, that's okay. But just to understand what other people believe or just to go with us. So everything else, your thoughts, your viewpoint in the world,
Jeanne
the weather changes, the environment, the building you were in was different 10, 20 years ago. It will be different in 10 more years, 100 years ago. Everything changes and it's natural to change. And the gunas, these qualities are the three ways that things change and they originate in the mind.
Jeanne
And so that does not work with any of the elements.
Jeanne
So the, but they do, they're similar.
Jeanne
So when we looked at kapha with earth and water, and someone who can be somewhat slower moving, or very thorough in their work, can work long hours, can finish a project, wonderful in relationship,
Jeanne
the somewhat seeming comparison in the world of gunas is tamas, T-A-M-A-S. And tamas is described as being stable and steady and solid.
Jeanne
And we want that. So tamas is not bad.
Jeanne
Unless there's too much of it, if there's more and more tamas, then it leads towards darkness and lethargy and depression.
Jeanne
And an example of tamas is ice cream, because it's wet and it's moist. That's more qualities of tamas and descriptions of tamas.
Jeanne
Ice cream, wet, cold, moist.
Jeanne
At nighttime, dark, darkness, and nighttime is more tamasic. In January,
Jeanne
like it's the worst thing for the average person to be having ice cream at nighttime in January, because it's going to add to that thickness. And to the cold, you've already got cold outside, and certain body types.
Monica
Unless you're in the Southern Hemisphere, then you want ice cream in January.
Jeanne
Exactly. So I'm talking about the Northern Hemisphere. Well said.
Jeanne
Yes, then go for it. So tamas, when in excess, it can lead towards problems. When it's in balance, we need it, because we all need to learn how to be still amidst chaos.
Jeanne
And then the other another guna, when you look at pita, the heat, the hot, the driving with the,
Jeanne
as you were saying, with the traffic and the anger and the irritation that can be connected with the quality that changes,
Jeanne
that's known as rajas.
Jeanne
And rajas is the opposite of tamas. It's fast, it's quick, it's light, meaning not heavy.
Jeanne
And it is its movement. And if we're stuck on the couch, and I can't move, I'm in bed and I keep hitting the snooze, I actually need a spark of rajas to get up, to get out of bed, to get off the couch and go do something instead of stay on the couch.
Jeanne
So rajas can be really, really helpful when we have too much rajas. And again, it originates in the mind.
Jeanne
Then all of a sudden, it's speedy, and it can lead to anger.
Jeanne
And competition is confrontation.
Jeanne
And then when we go to the last of the dojas, you know, the top two, air and ether, you go over in the world of gunas. And the comparison is satva.
Jeanne
SATTVA or SATTWA, depends on what part of India you're coming from.
Jeanne
And my teacher does more of a "wa", so I do satva.
Jeanne
And so this is the harmony, the balance.
Jeanne
And so it's the equanimity, it's neither too hot, not too cold. And it's not too hard, fast, not too slow. And it's easy digestion, it's everything flows when it's in balance. But here's the thing, a lot of people say, "Oh yeah, you got to get to satva."
Jeanne
And so that means vata is better in the dojas, right? Nope, didn't say that. Satva, because our mind goes through all of these three gunas in one day.
Jeanne
And when we're in this harmonious place of like, "Oh, I just finished a massage and I'm so happy." And then we check our email, and we're like, "I don't want to look at that email. I'm closing it. I don't want to get angry."
Jeanne
And so we walk into the juice shop because we want to order a juice, and they're using the juice, and they're using the loud blenders. It's like, "Oh, it's too stressful. I don't want that. I only want a perfect life."
Jeanne
So when we have, you know, it happens for all of this, we have this lovely feeling, and we start clinging to it. And we don't want it to end. And we start to get rigid and take ourselves too seriously that we are pure pristine.
Jeanne
And I knew this woman, she only wore white, which was great.
Jeanne
I would fail at that quickly.
Jeanne
And so therefore, she would have to have somebody else open up the can of soda because she didn't want it to spray on her, and because she was removed from everything. And it's like, "Don't make me angry."
Jeanne
But the thing is, if we stay too long in this, we lose a sense of humor about ourselves.
Monica
Right. Yeah, we need the anger to push us into activation, not to sit in it and dwell on it and cause us to be in the saboteur mindset, but to push us into, now what? Do you want to sit here and be angry with your hand on the hot stove? Or do you want to actually do something that makes an impact to make it better? Right.
Jeanne
Or it shows us where we're not speaking up for ourselves, or it shows us where fear is, the root of anger in the perspective I follow is fear.
Jeanne
And so anger may not ask us to take action always, but it shows us, it gives a very important weather report that we must address.
Jeanne
That stuff is not harmonious. And so anger is good.
Jeanne
We don't have to act on all anger, but anger is showing us where we're not fully harmonious. And then all of a sudden it's like, "Well, I thought it was, I guess I'm a crappy spiritual person. I'm a crappy, good person." And so we get into depression. It's like, what was our mindset at eight o'clock this morning?
Monica
You know,
Monica
I have an aura ring. I really like it. And it tracks stress levels is one of the metrics.
Monica
So when I'm running, of course it shows stress, meaning my heart rate is elevated, my butt, that's good stress. Right. Another way I experienced stress is when I'm in the car. And I love this example of like when people say like, "Oh, I can't see it." Right. But if you close your eyes and you think of something stressful, your heart rate will rise.
Monica
And so we have this complete somatic experience and we can see, if you have an aura ring, you can see your heart rate is up, but you can feel it. You don't need a ring to know this happens.
Monica
Maybe you start to sweat, maybe you start to panic, but yes, these fears in our mind translate into the health of our bodies.
Jeanne
I don't use aura rings, but I just often catch that I'm not inhaling
Jeanne
or barely. You know, being at the computer, we bear and studies have found we barely have a respiratory, our respiratory system is barely operating. And that immediately, it directly correlates to the stress because we're not breathing. And when I'm driving, I catch that I'm not breathing deeply, especially when you're in Los Angeles and we sit forever in traffic. And then you're like, "I need to go there. How am I going to, what am I going to do now? What are they going to say when I'm late?" And so then I'm not breathing. So I just start to bake a point of inhaling deeply down to the sit bones and it creates a shift.
Jeanne
And then if I find, "Oh my God, I can't even inhale, my diaphragm can't move down." It's like, "Okay, then let's work on it right now, right here."
Jeanne
Because yes, you're right, we're unaware.
Jeanne
And so the goodness change.
Jeanne
And who we were at 8am, then if we think about 1pm and then where our mind will be at 8pm,
Jeanne
I was just going to say, even if we're, you can say, "Well, it's still rajasic because I'm in a crappy place in my life." It's like, "Well, it's making him different."
Monica
What were you going to say? Yeah. So if I wake up at 8am and I have this great morning ritual of writing down a word of gratitude or something I'm grateful for, or getting on my mat and meditating for five minutes, how do some of these actions and behaviors shape? Obviously they do shape our thoughts. But do you find that that is something that will help us in this flow of the gunas and the dosas?
Jeanne
I don't know if I'm answering your question. One of the things that I do is when I feel the anger in my body and I've got a great drama monologue going on in my head,
Jeanne
I'll just start to observe. You've got a lot of rajas going on right now.
Jeanne
To remember rajas is that quick, fiery, hot. And so I'm not angry, but the rajasic energy is acting upon me at the moment.
Jeanne
And the more we can identify with our soul, purusha, that which never changes, instead of the procrity,
Jeanne
that which is always changing. I mean, if I'm only looking at what changes and saying, that's who I am. And if I'm having a good hair day, I'm an amazing person. And if I'm having a bad hair day, then I suck and I should stay home.
Jeanne
Or if nobody likes my social media post, I guess I'm a loser.
Jeanne
Am I right? Is that what everyone says?
Jeanne
So,
Jeanne
but when and then when I'm noticing I'm really sad,
Jeanne
then again, it's like, oh, sadness is happening upon me. I'm not sad.
Jeanne
And the gift, I really noticed this is not bragging, this is hopefully inspiring others. I really in the last year,
Jeanne
come to experience the gift of a continued steady meditation, is that I can ride it when I'm sad. Instead of need to do something. And if I'm angry, instead of need to do something, I can just walk in the past. Because when you're sitting, if you're sitting for an extended period of time, just like the hot flash rising, it's like, can you just wait, wait, wait. And it's also this discomfort is like, I can't stand it. I want to get up. I, you know, my kitchen is a mess. It's like, no, we've made this commitment. We're here. And when I can survive my own thoughts,
Jeanne
sitting,
Jeanne
then I can survive a sad phase. And it's really kind of cool because it's like, you know, tomorrow morning, you're going to feel different.
Jeanne
Can you get through this evening, instead of reaching for the pacifier, whatever that is, whether it's food or drugs or alcohol or shopping, or filling it with people that you're just using to fill the space because you're afraid to be alone, or extra exercise or whatever. And it's like, can you,
Jeanne
you know, and sitting with it, you don't have to completely be with it. But it's just like, it's not the only story about your life. So that's, I don't know if I'm answering you, but it's more about observing. It's not us. It doesn't define.
Jeanne
That's right.
Monica
And it's very human to experience all of these. Very human. What a gift.
Jeanne
You know, remember, there's what's that movie Wings of Desire,
Jeanne
the German movie, I think it is, with Peter Falk. About it's an older film.
Jeanne
I think it came out in the 70s and 80s. And it's about two angels were watching all the people. And one angel, he's looking at people, and I think it's Manhattan. And he's wishing he sees the woman he's crying, and he wishes he could feel sadness.
Jeanne
And he sees two people arguing and he wishes he could feel angry.
Jeanne
We don't realize what we have.
Jeanne
And that eventually he makes the choice to let go of his angel wings and to come down and to have all of the human experiences, even when you're looking at your computer on your bank statement, seeing debt or other problems, that we don't realize these emotions as much as we don't want them. Yes, they're human.
Jeanne
And all people, even, you know, yogis or yoga teachers or whatever, we need to have them. It's on the menu.
Jeanne
And suppose it's part of our diet.
Jeanne
But I was thinking about
Monica
this. So so spot on, Jeanne, as a yoga teacher, we are still human. Oh,
Jeanne
you may seem like my students see me.
Monica
Yeah, you may seem like you're not but you are right. And so it's one thing to say as a yoga teacher, you know, this is the practice and to create this ideal that you wake up, you embody gratitude, you meditate, you do all the things right? Like what about the parent in the middle of this hectic life, right? The person who is in like going from one busy meeting to another, that was me all week in Washington, DC at this conference without a single stop, right? In a toxic workplace, how do we help them create space for the pause, right? To know, to gain the self awareness and then to say, what am I experiencing here? Or how could I slow down to meet the katha?
Monica
How could I? Yeah.
Monica
stroke the energy of the Pitta. And basically, how could I deal with the most space for the Vata? Yeah.
Monica
That's hard. Sometimes, right?
Jeanne
Yeah, it is. And when I was a newer teacher, I was teaching all over the place. I was teaching too many classes a week. I was in my car all the time.
Jeanne
I would get up and say three curse words that I won't do here, but you know, I'm late. I have to be out the door now to go teach and then I wouldn't come home until 11 o'clock.
Jeanne
And, and you know, I still had emails to do and still had to do my personal practice. But when we make time,
Jeanne
even like 10-15 minutes of our own practice, and ideally, if it can't eventually get longer, the more we can sit and observe ourselves, because it's really learning how to be the observer, that I'm not the thoughts I'm thinking.
Jeanne
I'm not even the thinker. There's a piece of me watching me sit in meditation,
Jeanne
doing meditation. There's a piece of me judging my performance in meditation.
Jeanne
And when we can pull back to that energy of watching it all within, then that skill starts to be developed so we can start to watch it outside. And then you're like, wow,
Jeanne
look at them. You can have a little bit more of a separation. Like look at that person spin themselves.
Jeanne
Wow.
Jeanne
And then you're not caught up into the words that they're saying and the story that's coming out of their mouth, you can start to see what's underneath and behind. And that's how then you can start to know what to offer to the person. And for you, you're running, and then you had to be here, and you had to be there, and you barely had a chance to even get a coffee or exhausted. And then there are times when we just pull back and we go, wow, this is crazy. This is a goofy day. Wow. How is this? And then if you need, you know, there are times when like, you know, Dear Lord, can you help me out here? I need a miracle because somehow I need to figure out this all has to get done today. And can I please have a coffee to help me get through this. Please have a coffee to help me get through this.
Jeanne
And so you make a request when you're able to not be in it. And all of a sudden, always, always, always I'm finding if I allow some miracle moves things around and cancels that and all of a sudden, it's like, here's your extra two hours. And look, there's a coffee with, you know, organic coffee, just for you. And here's this. And now don't be greedy, but say thank you. And so
Monica
we can I had a day like this last week. And I was thinking exactly that. Yeah, please help me. I can't I don't know how to get all this done today. Yeah, and then someone canceled their meeting. And I was like, Thank you. I can eat. So that's what I needed. I needed an hour.
Jeanne
There we go. Because we are not the doer. And but again, you know, how do you do with your parents? And then you got to pick up your kid and your kid is behaving, you got to make dinner, and you got to do this and that. And I mean, I don't have children, so I'm not going to be teaching people how to parent. But I have had phases in my life where it was crazy busy, not just in yoga, there were times when I was acting and doing, I was performing or I was running around Los Angeles auditioning and doing all of that stuff. And so it was putting on the different hats, and then taking off the perfect yoga hat and putting on the hat of reading the sides and dropping into this character, putting on this hat for, you know, to be acute, whatever's, you know, and then you're dealing with family and then how do you deal with all that?
Jeanne
And the more we can see it as a play,
Jeanne
as a dance, and to try to we're doing the best we can.
Jeanne
And when we have a daily meditation practice, every once in a while we can tap into that, which we connected with in the morning, or in the evening before you go to bed, or whenever, whenever you can, it makes it a lot easier. And the drama, the extreme of the dramas get small. And you know, because life will still be chaotic. But there I remember when I was younger, my capacity to go to this high level of stress and then go all the way down and go all the way up. I mean, I had to learn through therapy, through a lot of meditation, a lot of yoga, wisdom lessons, and I brought them down, and I'll still go up inside. But it's managed,
Monica
manageable range.
Jeanne
Well, you know, and, you know, and even when there's like an extreme, it's like I'm watching myself spiral.
Jeanne
Instead of being the victim.
Jeanne
I'm watching you're here's us. It's interesting. I like the word it's interest.
Monica
I love what you just said, because for listeners who forget what to do when they meet a vata or peta or a kappa, and don't understand where they are energetically or Rajasic to Mosaic, they can say, I
Monica
I can listen to my heart, I can withhold judgment.
Monica
And I can just gain a little bit more clarity.
Monica
And then maybe I'll remember what Jeanne said about how to meet someone who's about to. But even if they don't, they can say, Oh, what am I feeling? Am I noticing this rain? What's happening within me to me myself energetically?
Jeanne
Because the five respond to someone from the Rajas that's rising within me, it's going to come out angry.
Jeanne
And that may not even be what I intend. Also, I want to clarify this gets really confusing, which is more than our conversation. But you can have a kappa person to remember that's earth and water with a vata guna. Well, I'm sorry, with a sattvic guna, or you could have a Rajasic guna. The kappa people are not just to Mosaic, they could have a very Rajasic guna. So a very speedy mind. And that's a lot of people at the computer, the computer technology people, their mind is going. So they're at it the whole time, and their body is still. And so then the body gets more and more still doesn't move, not good for the all 10 systems of the body, because their mind is using up all the calories in the brain.
Monica
Well, that's a plug for yoga, because we need to fortify the bodies through asana. And we need to reduce the chatter in the mind and bring balance and all of it. Yes. I know they need to run. And I think we could talk for another hour about this. And we need to do a part two, because I have a list of questions you had a newsletter come out recently that I would love to delve into more. But before you go, will you tell us about the program you're doing the first weekend in June?
Jeanne
Ah, so this is it's called the introduction to the subtle body. So I have a very long 50 hour course, which I really want to take in person.
Monica
I I'm so tired of online learning, Jeanne, and I really want to find a way it's going to happen. Some people say that.
Jeanne
And then some people say I want online, you know, you never know. And this is called the master training and subtle body. And this is really average as much as I can put into a 50 hour course.
Jeanne
So what I'm offering in June, and it's through a 300 hour with a teacher training that's taking place at the studio that I'm at Center for yoga. This is one of the modules that's open to the public. It's an introduction to the subtle body. And an introduction is a 20 hour program that gives you a taster of everything, especially if people like, well, I don't even know what this is. Should I do the big Kahuna? It's like, then do the 20 hours. And it's three days in June, and then three days in October, or you can do just the three days in June, or you can do the first class of the first day. And then nothing else. I'm not letting all the awesome practices be available to the public, because I'm taking people somewhere deep. And it's not appropriate to have people come off the street. They won't, it could be dangerous, and it's not respectful.
Jeanne
So, so that's what I'm doing. And anyone who's interested, you can reach out to me.
Jeanne
And I'm happy to answer any questions. Love to share more.
Monica
Thank you. I always love seeing you. It's such a pleasure to I learned so much from you always. And thank you. I'll share all of your links. I think it's Jeannehaleman.com.
Jeanne
Right. Jeannehaleman.com. Yeah, and everything is there and more will be coming shortly.
Monica
Yeah, your newsletters are fantastic, as well. Thank you. I love them.
Jeanne
I appreciate that. And anyone who's interested for the newsletter, you can sign up. I don't send that many. And I always make sure to offer something,
Jeanne
even if you can't practice or whatever, to learn from or an inspiration or some sort of educational piece.
Jeanne
So it's not a waste of time to read it. Hopefully. Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Monica. What a treat. Have a great rest of your evening. Thank you. Appreciate all your time.